Repost: Choice Dialog (Unpopular Ideas posts)

[sasha_feather]

Lately the media, and people in general, are talking about queerness again because of Chick-Fil-A and whatnot. I posted something earlier, filtered, that I am going to repost publicly because I believe it strongly and I seem to be in the minority in my belief.

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I keep thinking about something I call the "choice dialog" (a term I may have heard somewhere, or may have made up). Watching Coming Out stories on Bravo, I see people say to homophobic relatives, "It's not a choice." My heinous former co-worker P. asked it of me at lunch one day, "Do you think that being gay is a choice?", to which I had to say, "Of course not, but wouldn't it be nice if it were?" (I was cornered.)

In reality I think things are more complex. They are always more complex. There seems to be some debate here that is controlled by homophobic ultra-Christian right-wingers that say we are choosing a sinful path, and that we need only to alter our choices to come back to the right path. Saying that we are born this way is a way to respond to these folks, and I respect that as one activist tactic. But I am no longer interested in engaging with such people, because to say these things is to start with an assumption that being queer is bad. If you change that assumption, then you change the dialog.

If queer is something good, to be celebrated, or if it is neutral, than you can choose to be queer.

And some people do. Some people's partners transition, and they choose to stay with their partners, or not. Some people are bisexual and they choose to act on it, or not. Some people choose celibacy, or not. Some queer people certainly stay in straight marriages. Some people simply choose to have experiences that don't fit inside labels.

That's the other thing about embracing a choice dialog: it opens up possibilities for people who identify as straight. You can choose to date someone of your same gender, and see how it goes! It doesn't have to mean you are one thing or another.

What I like about classifying things as choices is that it emphasizes autonomy and free will. Sure, neuroscience and biology probably do govern us. But I'd rather think that I have some choice in the matter.

Other excellent posts on this topic:

Fauxgress Watch: Born this way

thingswithwings: Who would choose this?

Frank Bruni: Gay Won't Go Away, Genetic or Not

Comments

[starlady]

Nicely put. While I do think that the "born this way" dialogue has a lot of uses as a way to convince people (mostly Christian in my experience, yes) that queerness is okay, I think the choice element is important to recognize too.

[sasha_feather]

Off topic, somewhat, have you seen "Sorted this way?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOxwo8TUQok

[kalmn]

you seem to have made it up-- https://www.google.com/search?q=choice+dialog

[sasha_feather]

To be fair, a lot of people spell it "dialogue". :D (but that still doesn't yeild much of anything in Google...)

[jesse_the_k]

Since around age 6, I've known I was bisexual. That personal experience has strongly affected my understanding of the "choice dialog."

In the 70s women's movement, bisexuality was deprecated, in part because of the choice issue. If I could choose between male and female partners, why in the world would I choose men? (Men were a bad choice based on the assumption that they were fundamentally [string of negative adjectives and soldiers of the patriarchy].)

My response (quietly in corners) and my internal explanation was I'd happened upon a male person who pushed the right buttons.

I must say that I've encounter people who don't seem to have the constitution to make a choice. Lesbians and heterosexual men who are completed disinterested in male bodies; gay men and women who are indifferent to female bodies. Given that reality, I believe "queer as a choice" definitely belongs in the "as we grow, we know" box. But I can't say that "queer is always a choice."

[sasha_feather]

Bisexuality is still deprecated, unfortunately, sadly.

Of course it's not a choice for all people! But my point is that whether it's a choice or not is not even the point.

(Remember the comments on the earlier locked version of this post? :D)

[jesse_the_k]

Gee, I sure was more coherent in that reply :,(

I do agree that the "choice dialog" as a political strategy has implications that not everyone recognizes, as you've described above. I'm cynical enough to see the "mainstream gay movement" consciously choosing the "but we're born that way" because it's politically effective. Even if that means throwing less mainstream people under the bus.

[sasha_feather]

<3

I guess it's a good thing I'm not a political strategizer; I just don't have the head or heart for it. I was thinking about something marina said in regards to debate team-- "find the most important point" or something like that, the strongest argument, and to me the strongest argument is that there is nothing unethical in any kind of consenual sexual behavior, so what is all the fuss about? But obviously not everyone agrees.

[meloukhia]

This. It troubles me when mainstream movements don't consider the implications of their rhetoric and the damage they're causing. Many 'advocates' seem to think it's okay to leave a mess on the carpet since someone else will have to clean it up anyhow, but that's really not a good way to think. If your activism requires marginalising people, it's not really activism.

[sophinisba]

Yay, this is a good post!

[sasha_feather]

Thank you!

[owlectomy]

I agree with this!

The "born this way" dialogue encapsulates a lot of assumptions that are to some degree useful against the "Couldn't you try just not being gay?" narrative and that are no doubt true for a lot of people -- that everyone has exactly one sexual orientation through their whole life, that everyone experiences that sexual orientation strongly and undeniably somewhere around puberty, that physical and/or sexual attraction is primary and intellectual or romantic attraction is secondary.

I think that became the dominant narrative because the people who fit that narrative tended to be the most sure about coming out, even in the face of enormous social pressure. But they're assumptions that don't work for everybody and it's time to expand the way we talk about sexuality.

[sasha_feather]

Thank you!

My experience was probably of the atypical sort, and what you say makes a lot of sense.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm with you. Not to mention the way that being "born that way" normativizes both gender and sexual binaries in a way that is not at all true to biology. This is one of the most frustrating paradigms I've come up against--frustrating in part because I am sympathetic to the impetus behind it. But I really think that the vastly greater number of gay and straight men who insist you're born either one way or the other versus the greater number of lesbians and straight women who say that sexuality is fluid to them has to tell you that the former position must have to do with policing masculinity... I think.

[andera_em]

Sorry--meant to log in as the above so I'm not just some anonymous creeper. Anyway, the above is from me, now logged in. O_o

[sasha_feather]

Policing masculinity! That is really interesting. And you are right, the mainstream movement that has told us about how it's not a choice has been largely defined by gay male voices. I have no doubt that to a lot of people this was their experience, and as you say I'm sympathetic/empathetic, but it's not the strongest argument.

[luinied]

Yeah, I am definitely down for blaming the policing of masculinity here. Not being into "gay stuff" is so bizarrely important in lots of male circles, and it starts so young.

[meloukhia]

I know I already commented on this in the original post, but I share this unpopular opinion! I dislike any 'activism' that turns away from making identities value-neutral, whether it's making queerness something to excuse or suggesting that disability is bad in some way.

There has to be a balance point that recognises people who absolutely do experience the sense of born this way while not harming people who negotiate their gender and sexuality differently.