Dog advice sought.

[sasha_feather]

Does anyone have advice for how to get my dog out of her crate? Treats are not working (turkey and cheese). Usually if I sit around and wait she comes out eventually, but she hasn't been out to do her business since last night!! This problem seems to have gotten worse since it got cold out. Climbing in and attaching her leash and then pulling on it doesn't really work and causes her to yelp. Singing her name/calling her hasn't worked today.

I am going to lay down for a bit: it seems like when I take a nap, that is when she whines to wake me up and wants to go out.

Comments

[jesse_the_k]

Huh, seems she has trained you to take naps when she's constipated :,)

I imagine there's a vicious cycle when she has held it for a long time: she doesn't want to mess her crate, so she holds it, so she's tenser holding on, and closer to messing her crate, so anxiety rockets.

Are you treating her continuously? That is, Come! treat, attach leash, treat, move a little, treat, move a little more, treat, step through the door, treat ... you get the picture. Are you completely dressed when it's time to take her out — I fail at this a lot, and Lucy gets exasperated with me and turns off her "outside mind."

[sasha_feather]

Yeah the nap thing seems to work best-- it's weird! She's not that treat-motivated which is weird for a dog. I think you are right about her being in an anxious loop in the crate.

Well, I start off being completely dressed, having just come in the house from the car, but then I get tired of waiting for her to get up and have to start taking things off. So, it's the opposite problem. Then I have to put them back on when she gets up.

[neolithicsheep]

Is the only time you ask her to leave her crate when you want her to go outside? What's her body language when you approach her while she's crated? Does she freeze up? Pant? Get bug eyed and/or slick her ears back? Lick her lips? Turn her head away from you?

Does she have a coat to wear? Boots? Salt from sidewalks burns paws.

Has something happened recently that scared the crap out of her when she wasn't crated? Is there something you usually do with her that you don't do when she's crated?

You mentioned she yelps when you try to pull her out by the neck via her collar -- have you taken her to the vet to rule out injury or illness causing the behavior change? Also, that isn't helping, it sounds like you're just hurting her. Force is not helpful.

There's a lot that could be going on here. It sounds like she's retreating to the one place she feels safe and staying there no matter what.

[sasha_feather]

Well, it's not really a behavior change. She's done this from day one, it's just that it has gotten worse lately. She also feels safe on the couch and will sometimes go back and forth from couch to crate. She is anxious about getting down from the couch too, and makes a big production of it.

[sasha_feather]

Today anyways, she curled up and turned her face away. She reluctantly moved to get to the turkey. Sometimes she will come out to eat the treats then run very quickly back into the crate (the crate door is always open). Her ears always lay back so....?

She has a coat to wear but so far no boots.

I should say, once I do get her out for the evening she feels much better, usually; she likes being outside and walking around or riding in the car and she likes lying on the sofa. It's like she's climbed the anxiety wall and has come down the other side.

[neolithicsheep]

Treat thing could be either she's anxious enough to not want food, or the treats are not high enough value for her. Sid does not want "normal" dog treats -- he works for honey nut Cheerios, cheesy popcorn, cheap cheddar cheese, bits of carrot, and oyster crackers. (I carry a snack mix bag) So you might try stinkier things than turkey -- bits of tuna, bits of hot dog, bleu cheese, slightly rotten squirrel. Whatever you're eating, if it's not poisonous for dogs, offer her a bit, you'll find something she loves.

If you feed her in her crate, I'd also stop that and start feeding her next to it, so she gets the idea that nice things happen outside the crate. You may have to do it by degrees -- get her to eat with just her head sticking out, gradually moving the bowl away weekly or whatever.

Have you talked to your vet about meds for her? People have been getting good response from Prozac with anxious dogs and it can help her get over how stressed she is.

[dogstar]

THis.

I'd also consider working on 'go into' and 'go out of' crate on cue in a totally different context to try and detach it a little bit from the 'oh no it is COLD out there' worries.

And maybe some warmer jammies? any chance she's cold?

[sasha_feather]

I think warmer clothes would be an easy place to start! Good idea.

[thingswithwings]

oh no! I don't really have a good answer for this, b/c Rorschach's startle reflex is ridic and it is never a problem to get him up for anything. Obviously force is a bad idea, as that'll just make it worse. Does she have a favourite toy? Or does she like squeaky toys maybe? Sometimes with Rory I try to pretend I'm having a great time without him - playing with a tennis ball on my own, squeaking a squeaker, eating delicious food, that kind of thing, to pique his curiosity. If feasible, you could sit outside her crate and do something that would interest her?

Other than that, I hope the nap thing works. My other advice would be to make sure that, when she comes out of her crate, you do fun indoor things with her for a while, so that she doesn't associate coming out of the crate with going out in the cold.

[sasha_feather]

Unfortunately she doesn't really seem to get the point of toys! She has a couple of squeaky toys and a Kong but she mostly just ignores them. Her favorite activity is lying on the couch with her head in my lap which she is doing right now (so cute). (the nap thing sort of worked.)

[j00j]

Other people have good advice.

A few things...

- Our greyhound did something very similar when he was Afraid of Storms and did not want to go outside. Or when he was stuck on the landing and afraid to go down stairs. He'd turn his head to avoid looking at the treats we were offering. It was kinda funny ("I snub your delicious treat even though I really want it!!"), but not after hours and hours of not going out to pee...

Some ideas:
- Clicker training might help here, if that's something you're interested in, since you can reward small steps in the right direction (take a step, click, take another step, click, go back in the crate, stop clicking, etc)
- There's something called a squawker that attracts dogs, and greyhounds seem to respond well to them. We never got one, but would occasionally play the sound effect on the computer and Robbie would be all HOLY SHIT WHAT IS THAT I MUST HAVE IT EARS TO RED ALERT WTF WTF. You can see a video of one in action here. http://s21.beta.photobucket.com/user/5blackgreys/media/MVI_8458.mp4.html So something like that *might* be distracting enough to override the anxiety for her.
- Is getting off the couch hard for her, or is she just nervous about it because she fell once or maybe has a little arthritis or something? If it seems like there is some difficulty, maybe constructing some sort of little step would make it easier? IDK.
- You mentioned she doesn't like most toys. This may not help with the crate situation at all, but it might be fun and potentially distracting for her-- a lot of greyhounds like stuffed animals. Ours liked those and ignored most other toys. Have you tried these? Easy to pick up cheap at a garage sale or from friends if you don't have some you're willing to part with. Ones designed for dogs are ideal, but if she's not a serious chewer, ones made for children are probably fine (greyhounds tend not to be chewers where some other breeds would nom the toy into a pile of fluff in seconds); just keep an eye on what she's doing and look for ones that seem sturdy/don't have a lot of smaller bits that would be easy to remove. Also avoid dangly limbs-- Robbie loved his Kermit the frog but we had to take it away because he'd trip over the legs as he carried it down the stairs (thus increasing Stair Anxiety). Note: if you haven't tried these and she likes them, you will probably need to be careful that she doesn't appropriate any you or other people do not want to share. Robbie eventually collected most of the ones in the house.

[sasha_feather]

Somewhere around the house I have a duck call which I took from my parents' house when I first got her. I will look for it!

I've tried giving her stuffed animals but she doesn't seem to interact with them. I wonder if it's because her teeth are ground down in front and maybe are a little sensitive? Or maybe because she's an older dog and just isn't used to them. The foster lady gave us a Clifford dog stuffed toy that has a squeaker, but she doesn't seem to play with it. One problem is that sometimes she slips a bit on the wood floors. I put some rugs down but that might be the issue with getting off the couch.

Thanks j00j! I'm sure I'll chat more about this later.

[sasha_feather]

Clicker training looks great, because she isn't so into treats, or at least I can't always figure out what she wants!